tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7256050.post111264956058361459..comments2023-09-23T07:46:55.137-04:00Comments on the ashram: the church is an illigitimate centergeoff and sherryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02055588922702826766noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7256050.post-1112969697864971712005-04-08T10:14:00.000-04:002005-04-08T10:14:00.000-04:00I think your assessment is pretty dead on, but I d...I think your assessment is pretty dead on, but I don't think that the ecclesiological and the missiological can exist without each other. The mission has to be grounded in the practices of the church and the practices of the church exist for the sake of missio dei.<BR/><BR/>I *think* that the difference is the centrality of Eucharist between us? We haven't had enough liturgical conversations forThunder Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01594849276853605077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7256050.post-1112959557442599832005-04-08T07:25:00.000-04:002005-04-08T07:25:00.000-04:00hey clark,wonderful questions...as i said above, i...hey clark,<BR/>wonderful questions...as i said above, i'm in a bit of a rush so please excuse the brevity of this.<BR/>david bosch gave his classic book the ambiguos title "transforming mission" intentionally. he says in the introduction mission will always transform 'both parties'. that is, we will be transformed by mission as much (more in some cases, me thinks) than we will transform 'them'.geoff and sherryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02055588922702826766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7256050.post-1112958840507770772005-04-08T07:14:00.000-04:002005-04-08T07:14:00.000-04:00i'm in a wee rush this morning so i don't have tim...i'm in a wee rush this morning so i don't have time to properly respond to comments. ...but check out sivin's recent post "constants in context". i wish i had read this before posting my reflection -http://sivinkit.net/<BR/><BR/>while trying to avoid reductionism (remember 'camping mocks the homeless') i think perhaps we are moving toward the same hope from different places (disciplines?)...i'mgeoff and sherryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02055588922702826766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7256050.post-1112890676121930142005-04-07T12:17:00.000-04:002005-04-07T12:17:00.000-04:00Geoff, I wonder how we could be shaped by those ou...Geoff, I wonder how we could be shaped by those outside our communities. Instead of having the outsiders come to us and us shape them, how could an attitude of us shaping them help us? I can see the dangers of going too far with this idea but I wonder if it has some (however little) wisdom in it.<BR/><BR/><BR/>I agree with Thunder that we need orthodoxy and orthopraxy (practices that shape the chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03281653363583997296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7256050.post-1112889683638255572005-04-07T12:01:00.000-04:002005-04-07T12:01:00.000-04:00BTW, how great is Theology of the Cross. That's a...BTW, how great is <I>Theology of the Cross</I>. That's a great fly-over of Yoder. I used it a lot in my thesis at Duke. It really goes into the non-foundationalism of Yoder that's crucial, but also easy to miss in his work if you aren't looking for it.Thunder Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01594849276853605077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7256050.post-1112889515489270722005-04-07T11:58:00.000-04:002005-04-07T11:58:00.000-04:00I agree with James. I think the problem is that wh...I agree with James. I think the problem is that when we think of church we limit it to the pretty building. Now, I disagree with Hoekendijk (<I>as much as I can disagree with him having never read him</I>) because I think that the church has to be the center in forming people capable of bearing witness to Christ. I'm a practice kind of guy and I think that the liturgy and sacraments are essentialThunder Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01594849276853605077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7256050.post-1112889385499739462005-04-07T11:56:00.000-04:002005-04-07T11:56:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Thunder Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01594849276853605077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7256050.post-1112877496483654052005-04-07T08:38:00.000-04:002005-04-07T08:38:00.000-04:00Geoff, great point. Yet, perhaps you could define ...Geoff, great point. Yet, perhaps you could define "church" in this context. Is it simply the structure, or the narrowing definition of the word, or the Body of Christ. It seems the later "Body" definition would be an appropriate center and include both the Kingdom and the Missio Dei. <BR/>These critics seem to me centered on the institutions we've established rather then the Church Universal. <BRjameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00348235610160221274noreply@blogger.com